Dissent is part of the American experience. To complain, grouse, organize and petition is as American as apple pie.
Yet some voices on the Right are suggesting somewhat more than political dissent. To one degree or another, some of them seem to be suggesting violence, or something very close to it.
New York Times columnist Charles Blow has noticed this development. The link is here.
15 comments:
Sore losers who prefer to continue living in their fantasy world.
Hate radio created a similar environment in Dallas, 1963.
The lunatic right and their abetters and masters want an affirmation of their "power," like the Kennedy assassination, performed by some weak-minded fool(s).
Plenty of them out there.
Look at this "Wanted" poster of Kennedy, read the ad on this page, JFK Blown Away---Hooray!
"On the very day JFK visited Dallas and died, the local newspaper, The Dallas Morning News, featured a full page, black-bordered anti-Kennedy advertisement prepared and paid for by persons affiliated with the John Birch Society, one of the most infamous right-wing extremist organizations of the 1960’s."
It all sounds very familiar.
Tolerance.org
"Talk radio began as a seriously bankable format in the early 1960s," said Steve Rendall, senior analyst with media watchdog Fairness and Accuracy in Reporting, who first tuned in about 1963.
"It was born in the backlash of a bunch of white guys on the right railing against the Civil Rights Movement, the women's movement and the peace movement. Forty years later little has changed."
I will modify my earlier comment about radio. It would not have "created" the hateful environment in Dallas 1963. That already existed. The full page Bircher ad in the Dallas Morning News was just an expression of it.
Today's hate radio is far more pervasive.
Hmmm. After asking you to re-read this:
We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness. — That to secure these rights, Governments are instituted among Men, deriving their just powers from the consent of the governed, — That whenever any Form of Government becomes destructive of these ends, it is the Right of the People to alter or to abolish it, and to institute new Government, laying its foundation on such principles and organizing its powers in such form, as to them shall seem most likely to effect their Safety and Happiness. Prudence, indeed, will dictate that Governments long established should not be changed for light and transient causes; and accordingly all experience hath shewn that mankind are more disposed to suffer, while evils are sufferable than to right themselves by abolishing the forms to which they are accustomed. But when a long train of abuses and usurpations, pursuing invariably the same Object evinces a design to reduce them under absolute Despotism, it is their right, it is their duty, to throw off such Government, and to provide new Guards for their future security.
My questions for you would be:
1) Do you disagree with Jefferson at any point of this? If so, which, and why?
2) Considering that not one of the sources Mr. Blow cited was actually calling for revolution now, but merely suggesting that people be ready, given the sentiments expressed by Jefferson here, do you think he would have disagreed that they should be ready? Why?
3) If enough people are convinced that our government is, in fact, "becom(ing) destructive of (the) ends" of securing our "unalienable Rights, (amongst which) are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness," why would they not be justified in "alter(ing) or...abolish(ing) it"?
4) To whom do you think the question of whether the excesses of government constitute "a long train of abuses and usurpations, pursuing invariably the same Object evinc(ing) a design to reduce them under absolute Despotism" should be deferred? Is this solely your decision to make? If not yours, then whose?
5) Do you--and presumably Mr. Blow--believe that by engaging in revolution, Jefferson and the other Founding Fathers' disaffection with Great Britain had "hardened into something more dark and dangerous"?
6) When some people were talking about seceding from Jesusland, or writing books and movies about the assassination of George Bush, did you think that was "dark and dangerous" or did you snicker under your breath at how stupid those right-wingers were, and wish such a thing were really possible?
Were I a gambling man, I know which way I'd bet.
Speaking for myself, I never wanted W to leave office any way other than by a fair election.
As to "...whenever any Form of Government becomes destructive of these ends, it is the Right of the People to alter or to abolish it...", time will tell if hate radio can fan the flames of anything more than a few cranks shooting some people.
I've heard through the years from right-wing gun enthusiasts about how important it is to keep the government at bay with an armed populace.
I've watched Bush/Cheney and co. go further than anyone would have dreamed in attacking the Constitution.
Did those would-be Minutemen care? No, they just wanted their guns.
If I were a betting man, my bet would be that we are not looking at an incipient revolution so much as Rush-sized tantrums.
That big cigar-chomping baby should be spanked. Or if you prefer non-corporal punishment, just take away his drugs.
Clarification: I said "I never wanted W to leave office any way other than by a fair election."
Not quite. Impeachment would have been preferable to me, by an orderly process of law.
Gotta love that brilliant argument to encourage an armed public on the basis that it will result in a "polite society."
Three armed police officers were mowed down today by a single crazed shooter, who was fearful about his guns being taken away (I wonder where he might have picked up that idea?)
Fox News today
PITTSBURGH — A gunman wearing a bulletproof vest and "lying in wait" opened fire on officers responding to a domestic disturbance call Saturday, killing three of them and turning a quiet Pittsburgh street into a battlefield, police said.
Police Chief Nate Harper said the motive for the shooting isn't clear, but friends said the gunman recently had been upset about losing his job and feared the Obama administration was poised to ban guns.
Richard Poplawski, 23, met officers at the doorway and shot two of them in the head immediately, Harper said. An officer who tried to help the two also was killed.
Before I put my two-cents in I will respond to "man of the west"'s questions.
1. I agree with all of what Jefferson states there, actually. Especially the part that says, "Prudence, indeed,will dictate that governments long established not changed for LIGHT and TRANSIENT causes" such as right-wing radio inflaming of a small, uninformed, and afraid section of the population targeted simply because it will keep them tuned in. Apparently the situation isn't bad enough that Rush, Igrahm, and Beck have stop hawking merchandise advertisements in between the veiled calls for insurrection, and in turn, picking up his checks. Not a single argument against this 2+ month old administration warrents revolution you terrified sore loser.
2. I do disagree with your assesment here and you seem to be splitting hairs between the reality that outright calling for a revolution by any of these folks would have them kicked off the radio for incitement and the fact on the ground that these people are only making money off of your tuning in. They want to stay on the radio, they know what you want to hear and they know you're ok with them stopping one step before it would have come out. Secondly, I think Jefferson would have intended the population to be aware, and prepared to face this possibility. But I do not think he would have a approved of the idea of keeping us all worked up and waiting for the call to "charge" at any and every moment as your logic seems to try to suggest. Remember, "prudence".
3. I agree completely, but who decide how many people is "enough" to justify it. You majority or the population? Remember, while republicans have been a large party in the past, the social conservatives are not and have not been anything but a minority. And the people so terrified by their lack of understanding that they think revolution is needed right now, definately a minority, a very small one, even in Texas or Oklahoma. So once again, how many is enough and is that judge impartial. Didn't think so.
4.I ask you and yours the same question. Who gets to make that decision? You and you're little band of insurrectionists or the majority of the population? You seem to use this argument as a means to say, "well just because you don't see it doesn't mean WE can't make a decision without you anyway." brother, that road goes both ways. What on earth makes you, the party unanimously voted out by the American population the rightful deciders?didn't we all collectively just shun your previous decisions? Is that not something we have a right to do is this country?or have you just lost your taste for democracy? Very in-line with the founding fathers, right?
5, Yes, for Britain we did harden into something more dark and dangerous. Are we gonna do that to America? Remember, there is a difference between fighting foreign rule and losing an election cycle you baby. To compare the two situations is infantile, intellectually weak, and degrading to the challenges our forefathers faced. You lost an election cycle, period! Oh no! Let's bring the whole thing down because we're afraid of the future!
6. Ah, and so the truth comes out. It's all just payback because at the END of eight years no one liked your guy. Hey we have a right. People did say those things and I never expected total respect from your side in any event. However, the left is not flush with guns nor did we run out and buy as many as we could and as much ammo as possible. No one organized for it. No one was serious enough about it to ever gain ground because we're able to recognize loonies and line-crossing when we see it. Now, if Palin had gotten in, you'd have had a different story because the MAJORITY of the population actually foes believe she'd destroy our nation. But if this is all just payback because no one liked the world-wife acclaimed idiot you supported then that's sad. W, isn't worth destroying the country but I don't expect you to have the capacity to really understand the consequences.
So there you go, you got a lefties response. As if you were listening anyway rather than sitting there in your truck soaking up glen beck and making a list of all the preparations you need to be making. Clean guns, buy tactical gear, listen to am, stock up on food, hate on liberals, listen to am, ignore any sense of reality, get real real mad, and listen to am. Wait.
Now, my two sense. This is real. These people are terrified and angry. They have been whipped up into a frenzy by people only seeking ratings and to vulture off of people's emotions. They are armed. They are reactionary. They are not deep-thinking. They threaten to destroy our commonality. They want to kill, harm, and take back by force a government that was taken from them by a democratic vote. They've lost their taste for America. They want a world dominated by social conservative rule, Biblical law(sharia anyone?). The misinterpret the only book they put stock in. They think they are the only way.
We are not prepared. We want to think they will just go away. We want to believe they are just a small group of crazies. We think there is nothing we can do. We are at risk.
I was the sole counter-protestor at Tulsa's "tea-party" where they were flying civil war flags and upside down American flags. Where were you?
We need a concerted and organize effort of opposition or else these people can go as far as they want. So wake up. What are we doing in return? How are we organizing opposition? What the hell are we doing buy sitting here and watching? Shame on all of you for not being a part of an opposition to these folks.
Goodbye America. The only people with the guts and passion are the ones with no f-ing brain. Thanks entertainment, consumerism, and distraction for destroying our desire to give a shit. Wake up lefties, or we're gonna have some trouble on our hands that we aren't ready for.
Just a warning. Intended for "man of the west" to register ad well. You will not be met ENTIRELY unopposed.
Oh, was that a tea party? I thought it was an armed village idiot convention.
Sure, have a giggle Tulsan. Laugh them off. Great idea. Maybe if we just make jokes they'll go away.
I don't wish to be confrontational but I don't find them humorous.
Hey, comradi0, we're on the same team. That was a magnificent rant.
We learned that confronting creationists, er, "Intelligent Design" proponents, as occurred in Dover, is a great way to show that they don't have a leg to stand on.
Maybe you have the right approach to these hysterical little "tea parties."
The next one is April 15th from 12:00 to 2:00 at Lafortune Park.
How can we gather people? We need to figure out some methods to organize.
I have turned out for a protest before, but this "teabagging" thing is really lame.
I think we should let the teabaggers keep all the spotlight, such as it is, directly on themselves.
so intresting blog,
thanks ,,
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victor
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